A director of a company, who had just found out that one of his favourite staff members had decided to resign, told me that he would not give this person any more of his time or energy and he would not, therefore, be offering her an exit interview.

He was personally very triggered by this person’s decision to leave.  He felt it was an attack on him. He felt that she was ungrateful and that she didn’t deserve anything extra from him or the company.

He also said that it would be a complete waste of time to conduct an exit interview because if she had a problem, she should have said so before she made the decision to jump ship so that they could have done something to address the problem.

I am confident that this person didn’t speak up beforehand because this director was not very good at receiving feedback. He had the potential to argue the point if people didn’t agree with him.

However, I think he is right… it is too late to try to fix problems once the person has left.  Unfortunately, the bit that he was missing was that this staff member did not feel safe to speak up before she left the organisation and chances are, even if she was offered an exit interview, she would have been unlikely to say very much at the time because what was to be gained?

And Adelaide is a small place; so, you don’t go around burning bridges, right?

However, I think there is real value to be achieved from holding an exit interview but only if they are conducted in a way that is safe.  So how do you make it safe and effective?

I believe that the best person to conduct an exit interview is someone independent from the employer; someone who can give the feedback in a way that can be heard and acted upon.

An employee or leader is too close to the situation.  They may feel ashamed or embarrassed if they discover at the eleventh hour that they have been partly responsible for this person’s decision to leave.  And if we feel blamed, chances are we then go into defensive mode.

But an independent third party can interview the person in a sensitive manner.  They have no emotional attachment to the person leaving or their reasons for leaving.  They can then provide that feedback in a way that can be actioned.

A person leaving your employment has a story to tell about their experience working for you.  That story might be good or not so good.  There are lots of reasons why people move on.  But gathering information about everyone’s stories and experience will help you to constantly improve your workplace and ensure you provide your team with a welcoming and safe place to work.

The other day a contractor received some feedback on their performance.  An email stating certain “facts”. These facts were the percentages of how much work the contractor had completed in a timely fashion.

These statistics suggested that the contractor was not meeting the standards set by the organisation. Uh oh.

That was the only information provided. No commentary on whether this was good or bad. No checking in. Just “facts”.

The contractor shrugged. This was common. A random email suggesting that their work was not meeting the target. No biggie. This happened all the time. They still kept being given work. This email was a non-story. It meant nothing. The organisation was just ticking a box saying they had provided feedback. Who cares? Delete!

This organisation really needs the work the contractor did to be completed.  It’s difficult work; work that no-one really wants to do. They struggle to find competent contractors. Everyone knows this.

The organisation has all these rules built into the contract about performance and they have extraordinary expectations; most of which are not generally achievable. The organisation occasionally rattles the cage and threatens the contractors that they need to be 100%  compliant to keep being given work, but the contractors all know that the managers are toothless tigers because there is no-one else who is willing to put up their hands to do this work. The organisation is completely dependent on the contractors. And yet they appear to treat the contractors with disdain.

What a wasted opportunity for this organisation. And how difficult is it for the contractors to feel engaged and valued; when there is a real sense that the organisation doesn’t care about them but keeps them around because they need them.

How much better would the outcomes be if the organisation looked after the contractors?  What if the organisation made an effort to have a real and meaningful relationship with the contractors? What if, as a result of supporting the contractors and asking them if they are okay or finding out how else they could support them, the contractors felt more engaged and cared more about meeting the KPIs outlined in their contracts.

What if…?

Photo by Canva Studio from Pexels

Recently, a friend of mine was dealing with a complaint.  The complaint did not have a lot of merit. But the complainant was very forceful and dogmatic and the complaints person in this company said that they would follow up the matter with Senior Management. 

Senior Management looked at each other and tried to work out why this matter had ended up with them.  The evidence did not warrant their attention. A lot of time was taken up dealing with a non-issue. 

Which in itself highlights a number of issues: 

  • The Complainant did not understand the process and rules associated with this particular issue. 
  • The Complainant had not been given adequate information from the outset – so they had made some inaccurate assumptions. 
  • The Complaints Officer did not understand the issue properly either and was therefore swayed by the degree of unhappiness of the Complainant. 
  • The Complaints Officer was not adequately trained as a Complaints Officer to be a proper gatekeeper for senior management. 

The consequences of this situation was that:

  • The Complainant spent a lot of time and energy worrying about something that they did not understand.
  • The Complainant may have made a different decision if she had properly understood the process from the outset. 
  • The Complaint may never have eventuated if the Complainant understood the process and therefore save the Complaints Officer from having to deal with it at all. 
  • Senior Management wasted valuable time dealing with an issue that was a non-issue. 
  • The Complaints officer was potentially embarrassed by the outcome and being shown up for not understanding the issue and the process. 
  • The Complainant is now even angrier and their behaviour may now escalate due to the lack of a positive outcome. 

So this non-problem highlighted a number of problems.  But because everyone is thinking that it is a non-problem – except the Complainant – the real issues might not be addressed. 

Conflict is a gift. It tells you there is a problem. Don’t ignore it. 

I am a political junkie. I love politics. I listen to all the podcasts on politics; I read about what is happening in our Federal Parliament all the time.  

So I have been listening to a lot of podcasts over the last few months about the fallout from the last election that everyone – even the pundits – thought the ALP was going to win. 

And it got me thinking.  There would be a lot of people who are very happy with the outcome and there would be a lot of people who were incredibly disappointed and stressed by the result. 

But despite that, there are no protests, no fighting in the streets or pubs.  There is a bit of right-wing/left-wing banter and debate on various media platforms, as anticipated.  But nothing out of the ordinary. 

We accept the outcome. Australia voted and that is what it is. 

And yet the same can not be true of some of the Committees that I have sat on or worked with.  

Often issues are not resolved because everyone talks and talks (or tells them what they think) and they can’t to an agreement so they keep the issue alive in the hope that they are going to come to an agreement, often by attrition. 

Firstly, we don’t have to agree but we do need to make decisions and move on. Not making decisions can create an unsafe environment. This is because there is a constant threat of change but nothing happens. People don’t know where they stand. Not making a decision is often favouring those people who don’t want change. It creates resentment. 

Create a process where people get an opportunity to put their case, to provide evidence and to inform. Give people equal speaking time to talk to the issue. Use a timer so that the process is fair. And then make a decision. Vote. And move on. 

Train the people in the Committee that processes will be followed. Don’t give people false hope. It’s not fair and it’s unsafe.

I often get asked to come and help an organisation or business when they are going through a conflict crisis. 

The wheels are falling off, and they ring me to help them get through the crisis. 

After being briefed by the leader, the first thing I do is meet with all of the parties for a confidential venting session.  This helps them to get clarity about the issues and to get some stuff off their chest. 

One of the questions I always ask in these venting sessions is who is the boss? It sounds like a silly question.  Surely the leader who engaged me is the boss – but the reality is that often a completely different person is deemed to be the boss of the office or workplace. 

Sometimes two people are vying for the position of leader/boss. 

What this tells me is: 

  1. There is not a lot of clarity about vision, roles and responsibilities and expectations; and
  2. Someone has stepped into the void.  If the leader is not leading effectively, someone else will step up and lead.  If two people try to fill this void, then there can be war. 

Every organisation needs to have a boss or leader.  An orchestra needs a conductor; a beehive needs a queen bee; dogs need a pack leader.  

One of the roles of leadership is to make everyone feel safe; safety comes from knowing where you stand, knowing where you are going and knowing who you go to when there is a problem. 

Every organisation needs structure, rules and most importantly, an effective leader. 


I have been working out. I had a bit of a break from really working out over the last few months due to a mix of work and family commitments. But this is bad form for me and I realised that I had to get fit again – really fit. 

So I started doing group exercise and really pushing myself. 

Oh, the pain!  I have had sore legs, arms, glutes, quads etc… You know you’re alive after you work out. 

Working out is the process of working a muscle until it “tears” or “gets exhausted” and the muscle then needs to repair and then the muscle gets stronger.  

You can’t truly fit without putting all of your muscles under stress.  No pain, no gain. 

The same is true of your conflict muscles. 

Most of us are so conflict-averse that we avoid conflict like the plague.  So what that means is that we tolerate behaviour that is rude or inappropriate; we say yes when we are thinking no; we are compliant so that we don’t rock the boat.  As a result, we complain about other people, we feel bad about ourselves for not taking action and sometimes our health is negatively affected because we are so stressed about the behaviour of others. 

Conflict is just information that there is a problem. When we put it on the table and talk about it, then we have some chance of resolving the issues and making a change.  

So I think that dealing with conflict when it arises is like working out.  It’s uncomfortable initially but over time the muscle gets used to working in that way and it gets easier and easier. 

Being assertive, looking out for ourselves, speaking up and expressing our concerns or providing feedback is good for your soul and your physical and mental health. 

So don’t be scared of your team “working their conflict muscle” – in fact, I say you should encourage it.  It’s not as scary as you think. 


The other day I was having a chat with my Uber driver. He was an electrical engineer who was on a student visa from India so that he could improve his employment position by studying project management.  He had completed his studies and wanted to get some work experience here in Adelaide before he returned to his home town in 2021. This would give him the best opportunity once he returned home to India. 

I asked him whether he wanted to stay in Adelaide?  He said no.  He thought the social life in his village in India was better. There are only a thousand people in his village and they have a better social life.  Fair enough I said. 

I asked him about the differences between Adelaide and the cities and villages in India.  He said that he has a very good life in India except for the corruption. He said that in Australia if you go to the police, you know that they will obey the laws. He said he couldn’t necessarily feel that police in his country would be so reliable. He said corruption is rife in India and this is why it can be unsafe. 

We all yearn for freedom. But the thing that makes Australia such a free country is that we have and obey the rules (most of the time).  If we have a problem, we call the police to step in and enforce the rules. We feel confident that we are safe because the rules are usually followed. 

Workplaces are the same.  Your team feel safe when they know that the rules will be followed; when there are no surprises; when people are required by the leadership to meet certain social and workplace standards. 

Next time someone comes to you to complain about something that is unfair, don’t get grumpy or annoyed. They are coming to you, as the boss, to ensure that the rules will be followed so that they can feel safe. 

Go well. 

An all too common scenario: two good friends go into business together. They create a company, the split the costs, and they excitedly work out what they are going to sell, how they are going to price their product and who is going to take responsibility for the various tasks — all good.

Until something goes wrong.

In the enthusiasm of starting the business, it feels like nothing could ever go wrong. There is no consideration for the exit strategy; there is no dispute resolution process planned.

So they struggle on because there is no process to deal with problems. But resentment builds and builds.  One person feels that the other person has mistreated them; one person thinks that they are contributing more than the other person, that they are being taken advantage of and their friendship wanes, and they start talking about the other person behind their back. They start avoiding the other person.

They are no longer friends. They are business partners; resentful business partners who feel stuck in a business they now regret.

What to do?

Remember what brought you together in the first place. You are friends; you like each other. So treat the other person as though you care about them.

Ask them what they want. Ask them what they need. Listen to them.

Stop telling them off and looking for all the bad things you see them doing. Get curious about what is going on for them.

Think about how you might have contributed to the issues.

And if you struggle with having that conversation get someone independent to help you have that conversation.

Don’t go on and on hating each other and hating your business.

Take action. Do something. Have a difficult conversation.

Love them. Reconnect. Talk.

I have recently been involved in assisting two parties who engaged in a physical fight that occurred on the work site during working hours to come together, work through their difference and find a way to be able to work together again.

This is a remarkable situation.  Not because the parties engaged in a physical fight at work; which I admit is not a good situation at all. No, what is remarkable about this situation is the manner in which it has been managed by senior management.

It is remarkable that these two staff members were not sacked on the spot. That is what I know would usually happen.

But the employer recognised that these two people need a second chance. They recognise that there were other issues at play in this situation that impacted on what happened in that moment.

I am so grateful to management for taking this approach. I am so grateful that these two good people get an opportunity to right the wrongs and move forward.

Imagine what would have happened to these two people and their families and friends if they had been sacked on the spot.  Just imagine:

  1. Their relationship would never have been salvaged. Chances are they would have blamed each other until the end of time for the fact that they got sacked.
  2. They both potentially may have had to deal with long-term mental health issues. I already know that the incident was so traumatic for both of them that they have had their mental health rocked.  
  3. Their families would have to deal with the long-term fall out of the loss of employment; the impact their sacking would have on them getting future employment and the impact of possibly deteriorating mental health.

Instead, they can work through their relationship issues, work through their mental health issues and learn some lessons from what happened and make some changes so that this never happens again.

Photo by Kayla Harris on Unsplash

I constantly hear from leaders and other parents that their staff or teenage children won’t tell them anything. (I mention both leaders and parents of teenagers in the same sentence because the way to manage this issue is the same for both groups.)

You know that there is a problem but when you ask that perennial question “what’s wrong?” the answer is always an emphatic “nothing”.

So you get agitated by this answer. Of course there is something wrong. It’s as plain as the nose on your face.

So you press on. “Come on, I know there is something wrong. Tell me, I might be able to help.” Deafening silence.

You start to feel angry. You might have a bit of a passive aggressive moment where you say “OK, well don’t tell me” and you punish them with the silent treatment.  Two can play at this game.

They won’t tell you anything because they don’t think it is safe to tell you. Simple. They may be wrong, but in their mind, after weighing up all the evidence, they have decided not to tell you.

As leaders and parents, we have a responsibility to create a safe environment for our team or our children to tell us information. We are in a much better position to lead if we know what is going on.  And as parents we usually need to know what is going on.

But no-one is going to tell us anything if they think that you are going to be critical, explode, use it against them or suffer.  We must create an environment where people feel comfortable to tell us things; remembering that most people feel really embarrassed when they stuff up or when things go wrong.

So how do you make a safe environment for people to tell you what is going on?  

  1. Listen

You listen, you empathise, you ask questions and you show that you care. You do not need to make any decisions at this time; you are just in the moment. Listening and being with them. They feel valued by your presence in this moment. They feel that they can trust you because the moment is about them; not you.

And remember, we do not make mistakes on purpose. We usually want to please people and do the right thing. But we’re also human, things will happen, we might want to please the wrong person, we may get distracted and make a mistake, we might be in the wrong the job, a whole host of things that happen.  If someone makes a mistakes, they didn’t do it to annoy you. It’s not personal.

2. Manage your emotions

On many occasions the thing that is causing your team member or teenager to be so down and worried is because they have made a mistake or they have seen something that shouldn’t have happened.  

This is information you need to know, so you can help fix the problem. The reason they can’t tell you is because they think you are going to lose control of your emotions in that moment, that you are going to get angry or seek to punish them.

If you feel yourself feeling angry and getting agitated, take some really deep breaths.  Your feelings are just that – feelings. You don’t have to impose them on someone else. They are your response to the information. They are not facts; they are feelings. Don’t let them dominate the moment.

3. Don’t try and fix the problem straight away

Chances are you can’t fix the problem straight away, so don’t try to.  If you do tend to get overwhelmed with emotion, chances are you will make a decision that is based on emotion and not fact.

Thank the person for sharing the information with you.  Tell them that it’s going to be okay; that there will be a way to deal with the issue. Ask them to come up with some ways in which they could deal with the situation; what could we do next. Help them take responsibility for whatever has happened without punishing them. In most situations, you do not have to “fix it” in that moment. So don’t.  

4. Sleep on it

When in doubt, say everything will be clearer tomorrow – because it will be. Let’s discuss this further tomorrow when we’ve had some time to think about it.  After you’ve had a good sleep you will be better able to think about the problem (if there is a problem) instead of reacting to the problem. Tomorrow you are less likely to fly off the handle or yell.

The issue will still need to be addressed. There will be no magic wand but after a good night’s sleep and maybe a long walk, you will both be able to revisit the conversation in a calmer state and then you can deal with it.  

Chances are you won’t feel the urgent need to punish the next day.

Chances are you will have a better understanding of what was going on and why the problem happened in the first place because you were listening and you were being curious.  This will help you and your team member or teenager to avoid this problem happening in the future.

Chances are that if you apply this approach every time there is a problem, your staff or your teenager is likely to tell you next time there is a problem.